Where EdTech Meets Pedagogy: A Conversation With Lisa Highfill

,: 2022

Access this episode's show notes, including links to the audio, a summary, and helpful resources.

[Start of recorded material: 00:00:01

Elana:

Hello, and welcome to All Things Marketing and Education. My name is Elana Leoni, and I've devoted my career to helping education brands build their brand awareness and engagement. Each week I sit down with educators, EdTech entrepreneurs, and experts in educational marketing and community building. All of them will share their successes and failures using social media, inbound marketing or content marketing, and community building. I'm excited to guide you on your journey to transform your marketing efforts into something that provides consistent value and ultimately improves the lives of your audience.

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of All Things Marketing and Education. This week, I am really excited to be sitting down with Lisa Highfill. She currently works as a technology integration specialist in the Bay Area, and she has been in education for a very long time. She's got lots of wisdom, lots of tips and tricks. I am so excited for her to talk about that with all of you. She's been in education for over 28 years, and she looks so young. She's been working as a classroom teacher. She is also a co-author of the popular HyperDoc Handbook. She's a co-creator of Teachers Give Teachers, but more recently – we're going to get into this in the show – she's been working on a fully online virtual academy, and she's going to talk about her experience and really just what she's learned along this beautiful journey.

I have known Lisa throughout my journey in education at Edutopia, and for the life of me, Lisa, I can't remember, like, the exact moment we first met, but I just remember you and me just being ubiquitous in the world of education, where if I was at a conference, potentially you were at that conference, and you were just smiling and potentially there were flocks of people coming towards you and asking you about HyperDocs. Lisa is one of the smartest, most humble educators I know. And in fact, when preparing for this podcast, she put a note which was so cute. She was like, "I just don't want to talk about myself. I would like to talk about teachers and students." And y'all, this is what really amazing teachers do, is they love just focusing on the impact and trying to help, help, help. So, I'm so blessed to have Lisa on this podcast. Recently, I got to attend one of her school's virtual showcases, and I was just in awe of everything they were doing and how they were presenting themselves. And then Lisa sent me a note and just talked to me about all of the struggles that her kids – like personal struggles each one was going through, and how she was so proud of them. And I said that did not shine through it all. They were professional, they were prepared. I was just so proud. It gives me goosebumps talking about it.

So today, Lisa will be talking about all of the things I mentioned, but specifically she's going to talk a little bit about designing and delivering digital lessons, some with HyperDocs, her journey to help design a Virtual Academy, which we could talk about for hours and hours. So, she's just going to give you a little tidbit of that and so much just good all-around EdTech fun. So, welcome Lisa, to All Things Marketing and Education.

Lisa:

Thank you, Elana. I think we met standing in line for the restroom at an EdCamp, and we just started chatting it up and getting all heady and deep into conversation, which is my favorite thing to do, to talk about –

Elana:

I miss those EdCamp days.

Lisa:

Yes. I've always admired you from and wished I could be you at Edutopia back in the day. That was my life goal. So...

Elana:

Thank you. It's funny because we've actually – this is going to sound weird. We've had a couple of bathroom moments. I remember it's you I ran into in the bathroom, too.

Lisa:

All the best conversations happen there.

Elana:

Yes. Well, Lisa, is there anything I missed about you contextually you want to tell our audience?

Lisa:

No, I'm just really happy to be here and to talk about the evolution. You just went through how I've evolved as a teacher over these years. And I'm just so happy to still be with Pleasanton Unified, same district for 28 years.

Elana:

Wow.

Lisa:

I feel like I've grown every year since I've been there, and I just couldn't leave it because what this conversation's going to come down to, Elana, is students, and really that's all I care about through everything. I'm going to talk to you about that's at the heart of it. That's really all I care about, is how do we reach them? How do we get them to be curious learners? How do we get them to care about learning?

Elana:

Yes. Well, why don't we start into your other venture around HyperDocs first, because people hear your name and they're like, "Oh, she's one of the people behind HyperDocs." But for a person who doesn't understand even what that term is, what is it, how does it work with designing and delivering digital lessons? Why would a teacher use it instead of something else? Maybe just the basics.

Lisa:

Yeah. So, here goes the elevator pitch. This is the crux. With anything that I work on along with my colleagues, Sarah Landis and Kelly Hilton, it's always very deep and multi-layered, but at the gist of it, a HyperDoc is a digital lesson that I, the teacher, create and give to my students. And the point is that the undercurrent layer is that it changes the way I deliver instruction, and it changes the way a student would experience learning. And that all comes from my craft that I put into that lesson, how I designed it, what kind of intention and purpose did I put. If I have students in my classroom who are language learners, and I know I'm going to build in a lot of language support for them throughout that lesson. If I want to build community with my classroom, I know I'm going to put in a lot of ebb and flow, like off tech, on tech, ways for them to see each other's answers or connect with each other. I'm going to build that into the lesson.

So for me, it's such a personal part of an – that teaching, is building that lesson that meets the needs of the students who are in front of you at that moment. It's like any hobby I do, it's fun. It's like cooking, it's like you put a little of this in, you put a little that in, you're like, "Oh, that did not work." And so you're always changing it up. They're very alive lessons, these digital lessons. I know a lot of people have thought for a long time, "Oh, they look like just digital worksheets," but you really just have to try it and try delivering it. And that's where the secret sauce is. It's all in the delivery and that –

Elana:

So, they're digital worksheets. Well, I don't even want to use that term because I think that oversimplifies it, but they are a digital space where you can organize and thoughtfully put in these layers, like you're saying, it's almost like creating a recipe. So, what's the difference between doing that versus them just going on a Google Doc or whatever?

Lisa:

It is definitely about that cycle of learning. I first learned about this from Ramsey Musallam, someone I know, I'm sure you've talked with many times, and his brilliance around cycles of learning, and the big "aha" for me and what makes a HyperDoc really different, is we build in the explore portion of a lesson before the explain. So, students aren't coming in and sitting down and passively, "Just tell me what to do." We're creating these taskmasters who come in and just complete our work. We have become a society of assigners. We just assign the work, or we just tell them this is the concept. Instead, it asks for that active engagement, that cognitive thinking from the onset: explore this content, make meaning of it. Tell me what you think at this point, my first formative assessment in a lesson, and then I'll go on and either take your thinking into a higher level, or I'll correct it when I go to explain that.

Then the last portion of that lesson, explore first, then explain, then apply. It really comes down to that authentic application of that knowledge. The so what, now what? So I learned this, now what? Now, I know we have assessments we have to give, but I'm going to say, "Yes and." What else can you do to let students have more equitable assessment by showcasing what they know in a way of their choice? I have a lot of students who are really verbal, and they do so well when they can showcase what they know by choice rather than the gotcha of the multiple choice test. It's so limiting, I'm afraid it's not giving us the data we really are looking for. And that all comes from you building that out in that lesson.

Elana:

Awesome. So you give the best practices framework that you see in order for them to also maybe look back at it next year and say, "What worked, what didn't work?", self-reflection, all of those things.

Lisa:

Yeah, back to the heart of lesson planning where you are, the engagement piece, then they explore, explain, apply, share, and reflect. I think, including building in that reflection piece, icing on the cake at the end, and letting kids do that collaboratively and digitally. Boy, that meets a lot of kids' needs who really hated sitting in the classroom and raising their hand one at a time and listening to each other reflect. It's so powerful when you can do it all at once, post on something like a Padlet. I mean, technology has really changed the way we can deliver and build our lessons.

Elana:

Yeah. And what we're talking about now, and I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong because I come from a different vantage point of, like, marketing in K-12 and in higher education. We don't tend to get into the nitty gritty of lesson planning much from the EdTech perspective. Is that right? I mean, I know as educators, you all have to do it all the time, but do you have a lot of resources? Maybe that's why HyperDocs even got invented because I don't – I've never come across a lot – I see a lot of lesson plans, if you go to Pinterest World and everything, but I don't really talk – the actual what you should do, how should you make it your own, that doesn't get talked about as much, am I right?

Lisa:

It doesn't anymore. I think with the addition of so many initiatives that are added to teachers' plates and wanting that fidelity of curriculum and having to follow the rules of a district, we've been in a new shift of, you deliver what has been given to you in your curriculum, instead of us being designers of that learning experience. So, what we try to teach teachers is how do you look at a bigger picture? Do a bird's-eye view of all that's required of you, and then pull those pieces from your curriculum, from your content standards, your essential standards, and create a really meaningful experience around that with your best practices, with the technology.

Now, you can't do that for every lesson alone. I mean, that's like so much – that's a lot of work, and it's a lot of time. And so, I really encourage teachers to think about what are lessons that they really want kids to stick? So, what is that piece that "you really need to know this when you're leaving this grade level," because it's oftentimes Groundhog Day. I'll teach a lesson and the next day I'm like, "Oh my gosh, you guys are still putting 'there,' 'their,' and 'they're' incorrectly into your writing." It's not transferring. Knowledge is not transferring. I need to make a sticky HyperDoc lesson that you will not forget the correct usage of "there," "their," and "they're." And so it's not every lesson, every day. It's that really important lesson?

I think, Elana, too, one thing. I'm sure you talk to a lot of educators who are feeling that burnout, are feeling that fatigue of teaching. I have to say, I get a lot of energy in being a creative person through designing lessons. I'm such a lesson plan geek that when I'm creating a lesson, I'm like, "Oh, and then we can do this, and then we can do this." I have so many ideas for it, and I get excited, and it brings that joy back into the profession that I really need. That's my fuel to get up every day and work with kids.

Elana:

Yeah. And that might be some slight reframing for educators at times, because I think it lesson planning – from my vantage point, I've never done it – but it can feel daunting. And it's like you say, how do I pick the lessons that I do want to be sticky? This is a perfect conversation for right now, at the time this podcast will be launching, we'll really be in the thick of back-to-school for educators. So I think what you said is, like, you can't do it all. But also potentially reframe it as what part of tweaking this lesson might give you joy, too? And then correlate that to those "aha" moments in the students, right?

Lisa:

I think for teachers going back to school right now, it's important to identify your pain points. What's not going well? Do you need to build more community with your students? So, design some community-building lessons from the beginning of the year, you can always go to Teachers Give Teachers or hyperdocs.co to find some of these lessons, or our Facebook group when we drop that, because a lot of teachers are making these back-to-school lessons that are building community and building this – actually, it's sort of an unlearning time for students to learn really well on a digital lesson. We're still working on that instead of being taskmasters to pause and think deeply about content.

Elana:

Yes. And if they're thinking deeply about content, they'll think deeply about everything down the road. I would say the number one thing all employers like myself look for when hiring, is critical thinking. Do they go beyond the task? I don't need someone that can check off tasks. I need someone to eventually go beyond it and create other tasks for other people down the road. And really just nerd out, get curious, be that lifelong learner.

Lisa:

Well, that's that problem solution. Elana, I often was frustrated. Students would come in and sit down and just say, "Just tell me what to do. Tell me when it's due and how many points it is." I realized I was feeding the beast. They were just complying with what I was giving them. So, I had to change up what I asked of them and, in the process, build agency for exactly what you're talking about, taking responsibility for their learning, making choices, which tool's going to best showcase my knowledge. Those are things, decision-making things that I hope that will transfer into the workplace seamlessly. It's that confidence in their work.

Elana:

Yeah and I definitely saw that. And we'll talk about your Virtual Academy, but I saw that confidence beaming from your students. And that was so cool to see. All of the resources that Lisa mentioned will be put in our Show Notes. And at the end of the episode, we'll give you the exact URL, too. You can also go to our website and find them, but no, rest assured all of these good resources, her Facebook group Teachers Give Teachers. I almost said Teachers Pay Teachers – oh my God, totally different – and hyperdocs.co, we'll put it all. And she might give you some extra freebies and whatnot that we'll put in the Show Notes.

Lisa, any parting thoughts? I was thinking, I always try to think about how thinking differently, allowing HyperDocs to reframe lesson planning, really can transform your teaching, but as EdTech folks that are listening, so we've got EdTech, startup, and marketers and sales folks listening, just trying to understand educators in their everyday lives. But they're also in charge of a product. You just talked about how fundamentally EdTech can do way more than when you and I were in school, so how can you see them complementing more with this new – It's not reframing, it's a new way to organize and reflect within lesson plans.

Lisa:

My hint and tip for everyone when it comes to lesson design, EdTech companies, everyone, less is more. I cannot say that enough. I really think that we are growing as a society with so many choices. So overwhelming. I think sometimes we get so complicated that it's important to really pare down. When I'm building HyperDocs throughout the year, I tend to stick to four web tools. I need web tools for creativity. I need web tools for collaboration. I need web tools for that visual production, video production, and then stop and limit myself, because I'm afraid with too many choices, we're getting away from the heart of the initiatives we're trying to do, which is to really teach students. Here's a real hint, Elana, teach students how to be really good learners. I mean, that to me is my job. And that's been a real "aha," especially this year. Teach students how to be really good learners, and then provide this content for them to practice on.

Elana:

And if I hear you right, you say from to EdTech folks do one thing: "Keep your product simple, easy to use." Don't try to have this crazy all-in-one suite that's really complicated for educators to do, because like you said, sometimes they just fit them in these buckets. What were those buckets again? Creativity?

Lisa:

Publishing and collaboration is very important. So, a perfect example of that is AnswerGarden. That is my favorite go-to for collaboration. Quick, share one word, how you're feeling today. And you put that up, and there's no bells and whistles. There's no login, there's a link, and it builds this word cloud. Here's the other key to this as educators, this is for you. When you have students do something like that, you have to teach from that then, otherwise they're on to you. They know it's just another task and they'll spam it, they'll put in any word, but if they know you're going to, like, "Let's dig in deep. Why did someone write this word here?" And actually teach from it and make that a part of that teaching and learning experience. That's why we need to use tech tools, not just to make a pretty word collage, but to then say, "What does this collage tell us about our classmates, and how we can work together today? I think people are feeling creative, and let's use that as we remember in our group work, that instant community we can build without calling on hands." I think of my introverted students all the time with AnswerGarden. They're so free, finally.

Elana:

That's awesome. Yeah, such good tips. Let's shift gears. So, talked a lot about HyperDocs, lesson planning. When you first told me what you were doing, I said, "Wow, every educator dreams of what you were doing." And in fact, I've dreamed about it. I remember I was, like, in Bali at a retreat, and I'm like, "I'm going to start a school sometime." I know that sounds very cliché, but I think starting a school that's thoughtfully designed and seeing what truly makes students succeed, that is so awesome. Can you just share with me about your journey, how you were approached with this opportunity, and then lessons learned along the way? I know that's a really big question. So, we'll take it as it comes.

Lisa:

Yeah, it is a dream for me to be in this position. I was in those conversations, too, if only I could just start my own school. And it's just incredible to be in this position in public education, I'm thrilled. It started during the pandemic and remote learning and teaching, and in my school district and Pleasanton Unified, at the time I was a coach, I was the tech integration specialist, teaching teachers how to use technology in their classroom. And I was doing the professional development for that purpose. And then we all went remote and, so it was my job to run professional development and support teachers through pandemic instruction. So, I was everywhere. I was in from TK through 12th grade, in special ed, with administrators. I had my hands and eyes and ears in all of it.

At the end of that time period, my school district came to me and said, "Would you be interested in doing what you do, but just in our new Virtual Academy that we're starting?" I said, "Yes, please. Is this true? Can you pinch me?" Because our district decided to take the learning gains from pandemic instruction and learning and really build upon it, because what happened was we found out a lot of students really thrived during this time. They thrived in ways that we weren't reaching them before this. So, I don't know if we would've ever truly understood the ways they were thriving or what they needed until this actually happened. And we experienced it, and if we were paying attention to it, number one, listening to students. And so I was asked to be the tech integration specialist in this small school, it started small.

It was still a little bit of pandemic last year with the new variant. And we launched our school year with 450 students. So, that was a lot during that time period, but we were fully staffed. So, this is not a Virtual Academy that is like one teacher for a hundred students. We have a math teacher in our secondary level. We have a science teacher, a math teacher, English, Spanish. We have subject area teachers. In our elementaries, at the time we had so many kids, we had combination classes. And so we had a teacher for each grade level. We started right off saying, "This is not Zoom school. We are going to learn from what did not go well during pandemic teaching. And we cannot have these kids on a computer all day long, just listening to us." So, we built a structure around all of the dream initiatives I've had throughout the years, which is design thinking and project-based learning, with the idea of having a hybrid space. So kids, if they wanted to come in, could come in, and if they wanted to be fully remote, they could do that as well, or they could have a combination. I think that design thinking is at the base of everything we do in our school. And number one, it starts with talking to our students and really listening.

So the first day of school, I'll never forget, we're 150 of us, secondary students on a Zoom call, and we call it the gatherings. And we meet every Monday morning at 9:00 AM, all-school gathering. And I put up a Padlet, and I said, "All right, everyone, we're building a school. What is the school you always wanted to be a part of?" And we had them go to a breakout room first and chat and collaborate. And then they started posting on the board. I get a little choked up just thinking about what they posted. And again, I'm going to go back to that. You can't ask kids to post something and then not listen to it. So, I took that Padlet where kids were saying, "I want friends, I don't want to be bullied. I want to learn a lot of things that – I want to learn about finances." I mean, they got very specific. They want to learn in their own time when they want to, they want to make things. I mean, it was just incredible, their answers.

So, I took that Padlet to the teachers, and I said, "Well, this is our task. How are we going to do this?" And so we started to build a little bit at a time, and then we come back to them, "What do you think of this? Do you like this lesson? Do you like this? What more do you want? How can we change this?" And then it really shifted, Elana, because instead of us building it, we formed clubs where they built it. So, for example, our leadership club took on the responsibility of really this multi-age teaching. They went and started to do programs that helped our elementary students and built that authentic purpose to what our high school students were doing. So, getting the kids to build it was our ultimate goal, I think, build some of these experiences.

Elana:

Yeah. Lisa, just hearing from you, I don't think you were building a school, you were building a community. You're building a community, and first and foremost, that focused on learning. And for all of you listening, I don't care if you're an educator or EdTech, if you're building something, you always have to listen. Ask. When you listen, they feel seen, they get ownership and get excited. But what Lisa is saying is don't just ignore it because that was your one hope. And then imagine if she just said, "All right, we're doing this." She would have very disengaged students, right?

Lisa:

Oh yeah. Back to creating that beast of them just doing what we've asked them to do, and it really could go that way. We're using online curriculum, we're using Edgenuity for our secondary school because it provides that baseline academics, that A-to-Z requirements, that are really necessary. But we are leaping beyond that for the applicant. That's just the input of knowledge. Now our craft is how do we apply that knowledge? And Elana, you're exactly right. When we first started building this, it was a lot of teaching students how to be learners.

So, my very first HyperDoc lesson was design your digital workspace. And my next lesson was how to calendar for motivation. It was all of these skills, life skills, on how to be a good learner, how to really improve your executive functioning. One of my most popular lessons that I would do on Monday gatherings was how to stay focused, how to avoid procrastination. I mean, these are lessons that I got to make some amazing HyperDocs from. And the students kept saying, "I wish I was taught this a long time ago." I think we assume they know these skills, but when I prepared them to be a learner and have confidence for that learning and also confidence for messing up and not doing well, or falling behind because they're in a virtual setting, they fall behind, they procrastinate. That's what we do. I always say, "Well, let's learn how to plan for plan B, what are you going to do? How are you going to solve this?" And that really has taken them so far beyond the learning that we even expected. They just take real ownership for it.

Elana:

That is amazing. I saw that, I saw them willing to take risks, and then you can only do that if you feel safe enough to do so and you have a community that's able to support you. And I saw that. What do you say to the educators that are in the thick of it now? They are trying to just get ahead and they might be like, "OK, I got to do bare minimum, and then go back, and then see where I can put an added value. I don't have time to teach them those life skills, but I see that they definitely need it because they aren't taught." That is a fundamental "aha" moment for me, is that a lot of students aren't taught how to learn, how to be learners and not even getting into the social-emotional learning context of are they ready to learn emotionally? But they don't even have the tools, if they are ready to learn emotionally how to succeed and navigate in a way that'll make them successful in the future, not the way that it'll get them to ACTs or SATs.

Lisa:

Exactly.

Elana:

So, how do they start, those teachers that are just drowning right now, really just trying to get through and do all the classroom prep? How do they focus and do that? Is this something they ask their admin to do, or –?

Lisa:

Well, I'm going to go back a little bit too because I've been having lots of big heady conversations with my other friend, Ken Shelton, this summer. And he was like, "Let's just tear it down. You cannot build equity in schools unless you just dismantle it." I'm in a position where I'm really lucky. So, when I talk about Virtual Academy, we did, we dismantled what we traditionally thought of school, and we're building it back up from the bottom, and teachers don't have that ability to do that. Systems, public education systems, run slower than that.

And that's why I encourage teachers to start with what you do have control over. And that is lessons. You all have that in common. Every teacher has lessons that they are to design. So, I always start with looking at problems and then designing for those solutions. Are my kids always forgetting something or a due date? Well, I'm going to do a quick lesson on how to organize your digital life, how to set up – Oh my God, the best thing I did was teaching them how to group their tabs and do bookmarks across the bookmark bar, so they could find things more efficiently. And I'll tell you, as a person who has trouble with focusing, that was a game changer for me as a learner.

So, I guess that's my other piece of advice. Teachers, think about you as a learner. It's not all about you, but it's a good start. And if you have trouble focusing, what are some things that you're using with your students? Because guaranteed, they might be struggling, but really importantly, showcase a lot of different ways to do this work and let them choose, have them take ownership of that. Say, "OK, this is one way to organize your digital life. But then tomorrow you're, I'm going to call, and if you want to showcase what works for you." And it really empowers the kids to think, "There isn't one right way to do this, and I have the power to control that and figure it out for myself."

Elana:

Yes, that's really, really helpful. I remember you teaching me that trick on the browser with the – I was like, "Oh, game changer." We don't pause. We get so caught in the hamster wheel of all the things that we all have to do. We don't pause and say, "Am I equipped to really be successful? And are my kids? Are my students? Have they ever been – am I making assumptions and then just getting frustrated because they're not doing it time and time again?" It becomes this vicious cycle, right?

Lisa:

I heard a lot of teachers last year talking about how different it is now that they're back in the classroom. And I say, "That's because they saw behind the veil. They saw this structure totally blown up and that there was a different way to do it." I think they're kind of calling us out on that. And so we have to step back and really listen to them. What is it that you need to feel successful in this room? And let's start there. In this brainstorm, there's no bad idea. And let's start with that building community and trust. Elana, if there's one thing that I think is most important in the work that I do, whether it's adults, kids, whoever, it's about building trust, and then we can get a lot done once you trust me. And once I trust you and if you mess up, that's OK, we'll work from there. So, work on that trust, building that community and getting to know each other. And it's a good start, it's a good place to begin.

Elana:

Yeah, and what a better time to do that than back-to-school, too? We always talk about the more popular things I see in back-to-school, rightfully so, is how to create a positive classroom culture but with that, you're doing it to build trust.

Lisa:

Yeah, 100%, and a part of that is students feeling really confident. So, one way to start preparing for back-to-school, is thinking about ways that you could build that trust with students, whether it is creating those structures for them to be organized for your classroom, or whether it is ways for them to get to know each other, or get to know themselves as a learner. I think that's an important part to address right away.

Elana:

And within HyperDocs – Sorry. Hey Jordan, I'm hearing a big reverb. Are you hearing it, Lisa? A background? I just want to make sure, OK. As long as it's not being recorded, I'm cool. – I was going to say, pause and with that, when you talk about trust, do you have some samples that you can point people to? I'm assuming that there's some sample lessons in the HyperDocs community on positive culture, trust building. And we can put those in the Show Notes, but I'm just verifying with you just because they're like, "Yeah, that sounds good, but how do I do that and how do I make time for it?" I'm trying to think of a busy educator right now.

Lisa:

Right, I think it's about committing to taking that time. Yes, I do have things for you. I'm a curator at heart. So, I have a Wakelet, a back-to-school HyperDocs that I'll be sure to share with the community. And sometimes you have to really look at it and say, "Why did she share that? Why are we doing the creative type test from Adobe? And what does that have to do with building trust?" It's really a part of you going through those layers and identifying and trying it out. We do that, we all see what kind of a creative type we are. And then I put similar creative types together to discuss, "Alright, what is it about you all that makes you this kind of a thinker or producer?" Or those personality kind of assessments that I love to do at the beginning of the school year. I think it's being vulnerable in sharing that and having a little fun, and it's worth it to take that kind of time, so that when you do get into your content, they don't feel like it's a treadmill that you're just on. And from day one, if you get off for a day, then you're going to be behind. They can see through that. They know that. So, I think you need to find that space.

Elana:

And you made me think, I think I love doing these shows because you make me better. You make me think and connect more. But allowing someone, a student, to discover themself, discover who they are as a person, a learner, all of these things, you're helping them communicate "Here's who I am" and be seen and be appreciated for who they are, the uniqueness of them as a learner. And that builds trust. I don't want you to fit in this mold, I want you to self-discover and use where you're passionate, but you also might have some skillsets that we can tap into as well. I recently went back to grad school, and I feel like, if nothing else, sure, a lot of higher education is stuck in the sit and get, sage on the stage. But if anything else, it helped me feel confident on who I am as a person and my unique background and skillsets and how that confidence and just even self-discovery, I have so much trust in that system because it allowed me to do that.

Lisa:

Yes. Yeah, I think what we have to be careful, too, when we don't develop lessons for that, because it changes our efficacy for how we function. And I see a lot of anxiety stemming from that in our students. So, building that up in them and letting them – I think my favorite thing is – my favorite in Virtual Academy was when students missed a deadline for that project, we had our big showcase for project-based learning, Elana you've mentioned it a few times. And students missed the deadline for when their product was due. I said, "So, give it to me when you're done." They looked at me like, "I could do that?" Because they were so involved in what they were doing and they cared so much about it, they kept working until well beyond that due date. And they still went through with it because they cared about it and they owned it. It was much more than just an assignment. I think that's when I saw learning has changed for students and they were so proud of themselves for accomplishing it.

Elana:

That is awesome. Well, Lisa, I know we can talk about all of these things forever. Every time I see you, I'm like, "Tell me what you're doing. Tell me what you've learned and what are the changes you're making this year." But for those of you listening, I hope educators, there'll be a ton of resources for you in the Show Notes, but I hope you walk away with one of the mind shifts that Lisa is talking about. I know things are overwhelming now, but are there things you can do to bring joy back to your teaching, and then also a way for you to discover and connect with your students on a deeper level. And for the EdTech people listening, I think some of the things that you said around simplicity and really working within what the educator – think about what the educator's trying to do in a day-to-day and how can we create things that do it exceptionally well, fit into that.

So Lisa, the couple of questions I ask for all of our guests, one is – and I'm really curious about your answer on this one, is around inspiration. You do so many things, you are in work that is just – It's fueling, but I can imagine it's really draining, at times too emotionally, because you put your heart and soul in everything you do. How do you recharge that battery? Are there books? Are there physical things you do? What keeps you going in those tough times?

Lisa:

Well, I'm a reader, so I'm an escapist. So, I just go into someone else's world. It is my favorite way to manage. So, I'm always hiding out in my house somewhere. And my family knows that if they haven't heard from me in like 20 minutes, 30 minutes, I'm probably hiding out with a book somewhere, and I just live in, you can see behind me, in my literature world, I just think in terms of fiction all the time, it's really what I want to grow up to be when I'm older, is a writer. So, I just spend a lot of time, as much time as I can, there.

Elana:

Is there anything you're reading now, or is there anything you can recommend of to the educators listening, or just people listening that you're like, "You got to read this book. It changed me."

Lisa:

Well, I'm a fiction reader, so it's not one my teacher books, but I really, my book of the year and I bought it for everyone I know is Midnight Library, Matt Haig's book. It's my kind of book, a little time travel, a little heady reflect on your life kind of thing. Sliding Doors, it's like Sliding Doors. I loved it. It's a great escapist book.

Elana:

Yes. And never apologize if you're doing things non-educatory because you all are humans, too. And I love to hear all the other things that fuel you, because we can't just continue to define ourselves as what we do, because you all are so much more than that. I love that recommendation. We'll put it in the Show Notes for you all, that are running and listening to this and you're like, "What'd she say?" So, we'll put that in there as well. Lisa, we talked about a couple of ways that educators and folks can get in touch with you, but would you mind just sharing that over again?

Lisa:

€“ since we wrote our book in: 2016

Elana:

Yeah, and I know you've heard a lot from Lisa, but what she said is true. I feel like you are a very thoughtful person, and you listen first. And I think now, listening to you, you teach your students to also digest, listen, think about things critically. And then you're very calculated in what you do say and respond to, of "How can I provide the most value?" and in your case, to your students. So, you are quote-unquote shy, but I would say that you're just a listener like me. Sometimes I get so overwhelmed, I don't know what to do, but just elevate educator voices and listen.

So, thank you so much, Lisa, for joining us. Gosh, I sometimes pinch myself. I'm like, "Yes, I get to connect with people like you, and this is my job." So, thank you for taking the time. I know you are in the midst of back-to-school. I wish you the best. Please keep in touch and let us know how things are going. What you've learned, things you've changed.

Lisa:

Thank you.

Elana:

For all of you that are like, "Give me the freebies. Give me this stuff that Lisa is talking about." You can access this episode's Show Notes at leoniconsultinggroup.com/26, 26, maybe like two times three is six. For detailed notes on everything that Lisa talked about, too, we also will give you some fast Show Notes, highlights as well, if you don't have time to listen to this whole thing. So thank you, everybody. We will see you next time on All Things Marketing and Education. Take care.

Thanks so much for listening to this week's episode. If you liked what you heard and want to dive deeper, you can visit leoniconsulting,group.com/podcast for all show notes, links, and freebies mentioned in each episode. And we always love friends, so please connect with us on Twitter at Leoni Group. If you enjoyed today's show, go ahead and click the subscribe button to be the first one notified when our next episode is released. We'll see you next week on All Things Marketing and Education.

[End of recorded material: 00:45:18